Transcription: Kevin Hassett in

The following is the transcription of an interview with the director of the National Economic Council of the White House, Kevin Hassett, which was issued in “Fac The Nation with Margaret Brennan” on September 7, 2025.

Margaret Brennan: Good morning, and welcome to face the nation. We begin this morning with the director of the National Economic Council, Kevin Hassett. Good morning and thanks for being here.

Kevin Hasset: Good morning. It’s great to be here.

Margaret Brennan: in person.

Kevin Hasset: Yes.

Margaret Brennan: There is much to get to you, but I want to start with what just happened overnight. Russia has launched a very significant attack against Ukraine and in Kyiv. Actually, they even arrived at a Ukrainian government building. The United States condemns the assault? And what are you waiting now in terms of triggering those sanctions to Russia?

Kevin Hasett: Well, as you know, I am not one of the president’s foreign policy, but in the National Economic Council we are responsible for ensuring that the sanctions are applied and that the people who are helping Russia with their war against Ukraine, such as for example, India has been doing, apologize, buying Russian oil, that we are ready to respond to them economic. And you know, the news last night is very disappointing and I am sure there will be a lot of conversation today and tomorrow about the level of sanctions and the moment of sanctions.

Margaret Brennan: the moment of additional sanctions to Russia.

Kevin Hasset: correct, yes. I want to say that it depends on the president at the end. But yes, it is a very disappointing set of issues.

Margaret Brennan: In the American economy, 22,000 jobs were added last month. The last two months of data were also reviewed. You have said in interviews this week suggests that there is less impulse here than you thought. Has job creation and the Federal Reserve stagnate should worry about job image?

Kevin Hassett: correct, well, well, first, the interesting thing about job numbers, correct, is that they had the greatest revisions in 50 years during the summer, and we arrived with 22,000 in August. But if you look at what they said in 23 and 24, they have two ways to estimate the jobs. There is something called the payroll survey, where employers ask how many people hired. Then have something called the home survey, where people call, say you have a job?

Margaret Brennan: Correct.

Kevin Hassett: And during those two years, the payroll number said we created four and a half million jobs and the domestic survey said about 2 million less, approximately two and a half million jobs. And they should have the same answer. And so for August, for example, the payroll survey said 22,000 and the household survey said 288,000. So, I think what is happening is that these outdated topography forms, as I wonder if you have ever received a mail survey and completed it and sent it again, maybe you have done it, but I think that is the way they try to do it. And the reason we are obtaining these massive revisions and these numbers that make no sense is that we have to modernize the way we make labor data. But if you observe the non -work data, you know, the GDP of the second quarter was checked up to 3.3%. The Estimation of the GDP of the Atlanta Fed for the third quarter at this time is 3%, so industrial production is at its highest point.

Margaret Brennan: But do you think all that data? All these models are working.

Kevin Hasset: No, the point is when there is dissonance in the data that should see how everything works.

Margaret Brennan: I have it.

Kevin Hasset: And what most suspected at this time, in terms of data quality, is the work number. Partly because there are other ways to do it. There is this company called Homebase that does. Your August issue is 150. But again, even think about this, if we ask homes, how many jobs do you have? It is more 288,000 in August. If we ask employers, they are 22,000. So, that is becoming a puzzle for economists, like what is wrong with the data? And we know what is wrong with the data. What is wrong with the data is that people are not filling the forms and sending the surveys.

Margaret Brennan: Last month, the president dismissed the head of the Office of Labor Statistics, suggesting that there was a political bias. Not only what you are talking about, which is a very technical problem about how the data is collected and creak. Did you fix political bias or –

Kevin Hassett: – Well, there, there are patterns of the data that look like political bias, but they could be accidental. And that is why we need to have a new set of eyes there to make sure that things are more transparent, that we modernize the surveys and do so that more people trust them. But think about this, in the Federal Reserve –

Margaret Brennan: – Then don’t you trust these numbers?

Kevin Hasset: I think BLS numbers should really improve. They need to be modernized. And I gave a talk in the BLS next to Alan Greenspan that we had a few years ago, where I talked about the need to modernize them, so I still agree with that position.

Margaret Brennan: But in terms of the line of trend, when we listen to companies such as Caterpillar, Deere, Ford, Procter & Gamble, that their costs are increasing due to tariffs. That does not suggest that there will be a robust hiring in those sectors, right? When a company is assuming something that could damage its productivity or profitability, should I say?

Kevin Hassett: Well, we have seen, inflation has lowered a lot. It was in the three three when President Trump assumed the position. The average during the six months is 1.9. And, you know, even the Fed at this time is clearly agreed that inflation has been under control if it believes that the futures markets because the markets of federal funds of funds now say that the Fed will reduce interest rates three times this year,

Margaret Brennan: -Mishes (inaudible) –

Kevin Hassett: And so, the Fed is expected to do so. And so, therefore, Fed is expected to feel comfortable with where inflation is at this time.

Margaret Brennan: But my point is that he did not predict these companies a scenario in which they would necessarily be hiring. Have you been able to calculate what the repression of immigration to employment has done?

Kevin Hassett: Well, yes, there are, there are a couple of things we could see. First, the employment of the private sector increases approximately half a million this year and government workers, government employment has decreased by approximately 100,000. There is another thing is that most of the works that have been created in the United States are for native workers, and in reality there have been a reduction in labor offer for non -native workers.

Margaret Brennan: How is that demonstrated?

Kevin Hasset: Excuse me?

Margaret Brennan: How is that demonstrated?

Kevin Hasset: Oh, we have one, we have a survey in which they really ask. Now, maybe we don’t trust surveys, right?

Margaret Brennan: Correct.

Kevin Hassett: And there really is something –

Margaret Brennan: And if you know that corporations are hiring undocumented or have a pattern of it, are you processing those companies?

Kevin Hasset: There are technicisms that when someone has released the country then, in the previous administration, they often obtained a number that would allow them to work legally until they went to court. And so there were, sure, people who were undocumented –

Margaret Brennan: But chasing employers? –

Kevin Hasett: Who could work? But the other thing that can be seen in the data, because we obtain the Like County unemployment insurance claims, that approximately 80% of unemployment claims in recent months come from the blue states. And so, there are places like Portland and Chicago where people flee from cities and you are seeing it in the numbers too.

Margaret Brennan: But does not plan to process the companies that had this pattern, is talking about hiring people in the country illegally?

Kevin Hasett: I don’t work for the Department of Justice, but I do see the native native employment pattern versus native.

Margaret Brennan: Well, we are also seeing in that data, you say that it does not necessarily trust, that it is being manufactured. That is related to trade. That is where the lack of hiring is happening. Those are the areas that the president had promised that there would be new jobs. When are these new works in those sectors?

Kevin Hasett: Correct, let’s think again that in terms of the way the data is a bit frustrating for all at this time that industrial production is at its highest point, GDP is booming, productivity increased 3.8% in the last quarter, and it seems that manufacturing work is low. So how is it that industrial production is at its highest point, while manufacturing use is inactive? It is something that we hope to see what happens in the reviews. The reviews have been, last year, there is a reference review next week. Last year, the review was more than one million in the last year. That is why we need new and better data.

Margaret Brennan: Well, we will wait to see if those works are created. I want to ask you about the Fed. Because the president was next to him in the Oval office, he said that he could basically become one of the most powerful men in the world because he is considering becoming the next president of the Federal Reserve. Our News survey that we have just made shows that 70% of Americans want the Federal Reserve to make decisions independently of President Trump. But there is a big partisan difference here. 59% of Republicans say the Fed must be guided by what Trump wants. 41% should be independent of Trump. What republican camp do you fall?

Kevin Hasett: Oh, if it were in that survey, then I would say 100% that monetary policy, the monetary policy of the Federal Reserve, must be totally independent of political influence.

Margaret Brennan: Even President Trump?

Kevin Hasset: even President Trump. The fact is that we have seen countries that have allowed leaders to take care of the central banks, and what tends to happen is that it is a recipe for inflation and misery for consumers. And so, the independence of the Central Bank is something that, as he saw, there was an audience this week about that, that the Democrats and Republicans and the White House agreed. Now the question is, has it been the current central bank as independent as we would like, so transparent that we would do it as we would like? And I think there is some dispute about it, in which we could enter if you wish.

Margaret Brennan: Well, Secretary Besent entered an article at the Wall Street Journal last week. –

Kevin Hassett: – He did. –

Margaret Brennan: He spoke about the independence of the Central Bank that was under threat due to the sprinkling of the mission. There must be an independent and non -partisan review of the entire Fed, its role in regulation, monetary policy and research. What is your plan to review the Fed?

Kevin Hassett: Well, I don’t have a plan to review the Fed at this time. I’m happy to do my job –

Margaret Brennan: – You have to have been thinking about it. –

Kevin Hasset: Look, I have been one of its main economic advisors for nine years. We talk about everything, from golf to the decoration of the oval office and monetary policy, but at this time I am focused on doing my job as director of the National Council of Economy every day.

Margaret Brennan: But you would support what Secretary Besent wrote in that article completely –

Kevin Hasett: – Yes, I agree with this article, yes.

Margaret Brennan: And would I be prepared to implement that vision for the Federal Reserve if he is president?

Kevin Hassett: It is a hypothetical that we will see.

Margaret Brennan: Well, it certainly seems from one of the appointed politicians, the cabinet member, to be a vision for the future of the Fed that the Trump administration would like.

Kevin Hassett: I agree with his vision, but I hope the President decides who will be the president of the Federal Reserve and I think he and Secretary Besent will do it skillfully. There are many great candidates.

Margaret Brennan: What will he do if the Supreme Court governs that the president’s tariff policy, or at least those under the IPPA, the International Law on Emergency Economic Powers, are not legal?

Kevin Hasett: we certainly do not expect the Supreme Court to do that and I think we are on a fairly high ground and, therefore, it is a very unlikely scenario. But the fact is that there are other legal authorities that one could use to obtain the same result. 232s, 301, you know numbers in which we could enter if you wish –

Margaret Brennan: – Other ways of implementing tariffs. –

Kevin Hasett: But it could be, yes, an too deep immersion for the show on a Sunday. But, but there are other things that could happen if so.

Margaret Brennan: Very good. Kevin Hasset, thanks for coming this Sunday morning.

Kevin Hasset: Thank you, it’s great to be here.