Transcription: the interim director of ICE Todd Lyons in

The following is the transcription of an interview with the Interim Director of Immigration and Customs Control Todd Lyons that was issued in “Fac The Nation with Margaret Brennan” on July 20, 2025.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: Lyons director, thank you very much for your time.

Interim Director of Immigration and Customs Control Todd Lyons: Oh, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Thanks for coming.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: You are leading the agency that is in the center of the main internal policy agenda of President Trump, the application of immigration and the taking of measures in illegal immigration. How do you see the role of ICE in this administration?

Interim director Lyons: Well, I definitely believe it as a tool for the application of the law, right? Then ICE is really focused on its public safety mission. I think that under all administrations, what is really ICE, is an entity of application of the law. And I really believe that at this time, our main approach is public security, and that is my approach. The main approach is to keep the Americans safe and promulgate our mission of application of the law.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: The Administration has established the objective of carrying out about a million deportations per year. The Congress has just given your agency $ 45 billion only to finance your detention network, and also another $ 30 billion to boost deportation efforts. What exactly is what money will finance and what do we expect that to look for that?

Interim director Lyons: on the field, in what we are really focused on it is to hire more in our ranks. To achieve the president’s mission, and under the vision of Secretary Noem, we definitely need more officers and agents.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: Do you know how many?

Interim Director Lyons: We are looking to hire around 10,000 and … but that’s exhausted in the last four years. Our ranks have really been reduced, and we really don’t have enough to make the mission of application of the law. One of the great obstacles to us is with the increase in sanctuary cities and sanctuary policies, we have to send more officers and agents to the community, in the street. Where we would only take two agents, say, going to a safe installation or a police station, the county jail to stop a threat of public security, well, we have to send four to five agents, and with the increase in assaults on the officers, sometimes we have to send from eight to ten only to provide security to those officers who are making the arrest. That is one of the great things that we expect with this increase in financing is to increase our workforce. Not only the officers, but also our lawyers, to ensure that we have enough legal support to move forward and deal with the Department of Justice, Appeals of the Immigration Court, things like that.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: detention facilities as well.

Interim Director Lyons: Detention Center too, yes.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: Is the goal of 1 million deportations possible per year due to this money?

Interim director Lyons: I definitely think it is possible. However, one thing, that ice is historically known in our mission is that we stop eliminating, we do not stop punitively. Then people listen to that increase in bed space, but it is not long term. We, you know, we stopped people to eliminate them. So, what we also want to do is focus on elimination efforts as well, because one thing we want to do is eliminate people in a safe and human way, but also efficiently, quickly. There is no reason for someone to take a detention center after being legally ordered by the immigration judge. We want to make sure they can return to their country of origin safely and quickly.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: More than a dozen people face charges for that violent attack against an ice installation in Texas. The National Security Department, as you know, has also reported a strong increase in attacks against its agents. What do you think is behind that?

Interim director Lyons: You sincerely know, I have to say that I think it is only the greatest rhetoric we hear against ice officers and ICE mission. If we thought about when we and I made a trip last year, in October. You know, you and I spent a good amount of time together watching teams in the field, and did not see the masked officers and agents, right? You do not see any kind of violence against us, no protest. Even returning to January 20, beginning of this administration, until mid -February, you really didn’t see that kind of rhetoric or violence against ice officers and agents as you do now. I believe that the strong increase in rhetoric, especially many elected officials who are ashamed, if you wish, or speaking against the mission of application of the ICE law, is what these attacks are really increasing against the officers. And that, unfortunately, the Alvarado incident in Prairieland, that is one that has really led him to the next level. We have seen protests. We have seen rocks. The rocks, in themselves, could be a deadly weapon, but now we have individuals in an ambush with firearms to attack an ice installation. Only the increase is amazing. The fact that, as you said, the 830% increase from last year’s assaults on officers. That is what really keeps me awake at night, it is because we have to focus on ice men and women, keeping them safe, making sure they go home with their families, our other couples, as well as in people in the community with whom we interact. You know, someone could intervene in this arrest of someone who loves him, say, a murder in his country of origin, a violent criminal who has nothing to lose. And one of these people, agitators or protesters, could get involved in an arrest by the ICE police, and could also be injured. So there are many factors that really come with this rhetoric against OCE officers and agents.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: Do you think that the increase in attacks against ice officers is connected to the broader increase in ice arrests throughout the country? Because you are seeing more arrests, you are also seeing more attacks.

Interim director Lyons: I think we are seeing both. I think because we are more visible in the community. You know, recently, people had talked about the amount of support ICE had under President Obama. Well, during those times, we made more arrests of custody, those arrests like you,

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: In prisons–

Interim director Lyons: -In prisons, right? We weren’t really outside. We simply do not see that now with many of the sanctuary policies and only a lot of lack of cooperation. So you see us more, and I think there is more tension, as you said, the immigration mission is one of the avant -garde of this administration, so it is much scrutiny and advertising. So I think that is also leading to much of rhetoric, criticism and much more of the greatest violence in officers.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: And you have cited those concerns about the safety of the officers by defending your agents using masks during operations. That has become a polarizing debate. What does it say, director, to criticism that officials responsible for enforcing the law, including ICE officers, should identify themselves and that the use of masks could be potentially dangerous, even because it could lead to impostors who were made by ice agents?

Interim Director Lyons: Yes, and that is one of our greatest concerns, and I have said it publicly before, I am not a defender of the masks. However, if that is a tool that ice men and women keep their family safe, then I will allow it. I turn the criticism that they do not identify. If you see many of the photos, as if we were outside that day, as if I returned on our trip. The men and women of ICE and our partners of the Department of Justice in the Local Police help us. They identify in their vest. You can see the HSI, Ero, the Federal Police officer, the FBI on the back of the vest. So he backed away the notion that we are not identifying ourselves. Now, what I would advocate, and I have said this many times, I know that many elected officials have submitted legislation or legislation on the prohibition of masks, things like that. I would also like, you know, elected officials to help us hold the people who do doxx or threaten an OCE officer or family officer or his family. I think that is key. If we, if we had that kind of support and had those laws or established regulations, we can hold those people to give the agents and ice officers and other agents of the law the tranquility that someone who threatens their life or their families or doxes will be responsible. I think that would be very useful.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: Therefore, it will continue to allow ice officers to use masks during operations.

Interim director Lyons: I will.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: Well, what is the policy regarding that? It is not mandatory.

Interim Director Lyons: It is not mandatory. As you can see, I don’t know, I wasn’t with your trip yesterday, but if you see some of the coverage of the media, there are officers and agents that do not. Recently, there have been some officers who have been interviewed by other networks that have talked about fears and some of the problems with work. So there are some who do not, but there are some that have been severely Doxxed. You know, speaking from experience, the last administration that I had multiple protesters of Antifa appeared in my residence. My address has been presented. My family’s information has been published. So I know firsthand for what these men and women pass, and it is a terrifying experience for someone’s family, because as an officer of the law, he does not sign up for that. You don’t bring, you don’t bring work home to your work. But when you have people, or even elected officials who say there will be no rest for an ice officer, an agent, who will expose them, you know, we will not rest for their family. That really worries me.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: We are going to enter who is arresting.

Interim Director Lyons: Of course.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: Do you know how many of the people arrested for ICE are people illegally, but who also has serious criminal records?

Interim director Lyons: Yes, we, as I said from the beginning, and even, again, returning to when we were together in October, ice always focuses on the worst of the worst. A difference that will see now is under this administration, we have opened the entire opening of the immigration portfolio, which means that if it is illegally here and ICE leaves and arrest someone who is released from a sanctuary jurisdiction or desired in their country of origin, and an ICE officer finds other people who are in the country illegally, we will take it so well. We are still focused on the worst of the worst. More than half of the people we have in custody at this time have a pending conviction or charges, since they are released from a sanctuary jurisdiction. However, one thing I would like to highlight is the fact that foreign criminal records are not in the United States data systems. So when we go out and say , arresting someone who has a warning of Interpol Red because they are sought in their country of origin, they are still a criminal, but under the US judicial state, they have no US criminal record, but that does not mean that they have no criminal record in their country of origin. I think that is one of the statistics that are lost in someone and they say, well, this person is not criminal, he has no criminal record in the United States. Well, that individual can have a criminal record, say, in Brazil, Uruguay, Ukraine, Russia. So there are also many things that are dedicated to that, why ICE offices and agents arrest people.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: And you are saying that now, if your agents meet someone who is illegally here, regardless of whether or not they have a criminal record, will that person be detained?

Interim director Lyons: If they are here in the United States illegally, If they will.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: they are the so-called collateral arrests.

Interim director Lyons: Correct.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: Okay. Simply, as you mentioned, we set up with the border patrol, not border, but the ice agents in Maryland, and we saw the agents that arrested sexual criminals, alleged gang members, the people that the president has promised to deport the country. Often speaks of getting rid of the worst of the worst that are illegally in the country. But we have also seen arrest workers by ice outside the home deposits, in some cases, agricultural workers, people who attend their judicial hearings in the immigration court. Should politics still prioritize arrests and deportation of people who are illegally here, but are they also violent criminals?

Interim Director Lyons: Yes, that is one thing, and that is a thing that I am extremely focused since I became the interim director, it is the fact that President and Secretary Noem have promised the American public that ICE will focus on the worst of the worst, and that is what we need to focus our limited resources. That is something that I have always said from the beginning. What is, again, frustrating for me is the fact that we would love to focus on these criminal foreigners who are inside a prison installation, right? A local agency for the application of the law, the state agency already considered that person a threat of public security and arrested it and are detained. I prefer to concentrate all our limited resources in that to stop them, but we have to go out to the community and make those arrests, and that is where it is seeing that the increase of whether we find someone says that this is here in the country illegally, we will stop them. With regard to the work site, as you mentioned, one thing that I would really like to highlight, especially what began on June 6 in Los Angeles, is the fact that when you see ice doing these labor raids, such as marijuana cultivation culture, you, we go with criminal search orders or criminal arrest orders. Not only are we focused on those people who, you know, are working here illegally, we are focused on these US companies that are really exploiting these workers, these people who came here for a better life. You know, you know, forced labor, children’s trafficking, you know, many of these cases of the work site are not a crime without victims that someone here works illegally and that is why we go there with these criminal orders to focus on these US companies that try to win an extra dollar behind these people who came here for a better life.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: Therefore, he plans to hold employers, the companies that hire people who are illegally here, not only workers.

Interim director Lyons: 100%.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: because that has been a concern.

Interim Director Lyons: It is. I can definitely see that concern, but what I would say is that we have to hold these US companies responsible, especially when it comes to people’s trafficking or children’s trafficking, forced labor, because those are victims, right? That, you know, this is where illegal employment is not just a crime without victims, he is a victim at the end of that he is exploited. And these US companies exploit people who come here illegally just to earn an extra dollar, and that is not correct. We have to take responsibility for those county companies.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: Should anyone here illegally be afraid that ice agents can arrest them? Should it be something they should be worried about?

Interim Director Lyons: No- I- What I can, I can talk to the ice, we have always made the specific application. That is something that always stresses. You saw it when you, when you and I mounted together in Baltimore last year. ICE knows who they are going to after that day. There are other DHS entities, the border patrol has a different mission, CBP has a different mission to that of us. I cannot talk to them, but I will talk to ICE, and the fact that, when ICE leaves, the person we are looking for, has a criminal record, has been released from a prison, which is considered a threat of public security or has been legally eliminated from the United States by an immigration judge. That is another of our great things too. But again, to return to my point before, if we leave

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: who cannot be a criminal, but they have been ordered.

Interim Director Lyons: Yes. Sorted deported. There are millions of people who are here in the United States who have had their due process, have gone through the entire immigration process and have been legally ordered by an immigration judge of the Department of Justice and simply have not abandoned the country. We are also focused on them. But again, to return to what I said before, if we move on and go to the community, and we made an arrest of one of those people, but there could be two other people with that person who is illegally, we simply will not get away as we did in the past. We will carry out our mission of application of the law and arrest these people.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: I want to read you, director, a letter that Congressman Tony Gonzales and other Republicans wrote to you. They said: “Every minute that we spend chasing an individual with a clean record is a minute less that we dedicate to stopping the terrorists or the operations of the poster.” Isn’t that only true from an operational point of view, because you don’t have agents and facilities, perhaps, to detain all those who are illegally here?

Interim director Lyons: I would say that. Operationally, I have always said that we have limited resources. Now we are going to obtain that financing with the president’s great bill. For the congressman, I would say that ICE is still focused on going after terrorists. We have, we already know, arrested more than 3,000 members of TDA gangs, which is now a foreign terrorist organization. But much, what I would say is that, like any agency to apply the local law, if you stop someone in a vehicle, and that person has a minor crime order, for example, or a civil order, that the agency of application of the local law will not move away from that individual. They will arrest that individual. And it is the same with the ice. So, while we still leave after the rapists, murderers, terrorists, we will find people who are illegally here. But what I can promise is that our main approach is that these public security threats are those national security concerns, because that is the ICE mission. Now we are going to find those other people who appear as guarantees, but we cannot get away from them. We need to make our mission of application of the law as well.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: You are no longer ignoring those cases.

Interim Director Lyons: No.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: In the application of the workplace, there have been some mixed messages, if you wish, of the administration. Initially, there was an effective pause on arrests in hotels, restaurants and farms. That was quickly invested. The president has spoken, director, giving a pass to the farmers who are in the country with workers who are illegally here. What is the policy now, when it comes to the application of the immigration work site?

Interim Director Lyons: What I said previously in the interview is the fact that the work, when we make an application of workplace, is based on a criminal case. Therefore, ICE will still focus on a criminal case, either, as he saw in the marijuana cultivation farm in California, if it is suspected that trafficking in persons or forced labor by children, issues like that. Therefore, our policy remains, if we go to the application of the workplace, we are focused on that criminal aspect of the investigation. So that’s the ICE policy. I can’t talk to the administration. I do not want to get ahead of the president or secretary when it comes to any type of long -term immigration plan that they have for workers, but I will say that for ICE, our policy is that we are still going to build solid criminal cases in those work sites to include business, and in that we are focused.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: including farms, hotels and restaurants?

Interim Lyons Director: Well, we have seen, in many cases, where certain organizations exploit childbirth like this, be it child labor, trafficking in people. We cannot get away from a criminal case when it comes to real victims there, we will still focus on them. Now administratively, I: we will focus more on the criminal side of that.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: But is there no prohibition of application operations in certain work sites?

Interim Director Lyons: No. And I think, as I said, you will see, when we introduce ourselves in a workplace, it is because an order of federal judge signed has taken us there for a criminal reason.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: how in the case of cannabis farms in California?

Interim director Lyons: Correct.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: The White House Cabinet Deputy Director, Stephen Miller, who plays an important role in immigration policy in this administration, has talked about the ice that carries out at least 3,000 daily arrests. At this time, you are not reaching that number. Is that objective realistic? And can you get to that rushing criminals?

Interim Director Lyons: I- If you look at the number of criminals we have already arrested, I think we see that we can. I think that when you look at those bigger numbers, when people talk about these certain objectives, you must also look at those people who have those final orders of removals. Those are what we are really focused on too. There were many people who were left in the last administration that have gone through their immigration process, which have not appeared before the Immigration Court and who were ordered. We still have to focus on them. So I would still say that you will see what ice resources leaving daily will continue to be those criminal cases and those final orders.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: Can you reach that number of 3,000 per day?

Interim director Lyons: I think we can reach any number we establish in which we establish ourselves. I think we just need to be limited in our reach and use our limited resources to focus on the worst. I- You know, operationally, when we are trying to protect the American public, I can’t focus on a number. We have to focus on, number one, to obtain those public security threats and those national security threats, as we did recently, when we arrested some of those Iranians. There was potential, known, alleged t errorists who entered the last administration. And we also had to worry about the safety of ice men and women. Those are the two main approach in which I need to focus, on our daily operations.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: Do you know what is the current average of daily detention at this time?

Interim Director Lyons: I would not say this average daily arrest. It really depends on the size and scope of what we are doing throughout the country. It can go from 2,500 to 1,700 per day.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: I have it, that’s fine. Our colleague Margaret Brennan recently obtained ICE data that shows that only a small percentage of the convicted criminals that ICE has deported in the last six months had sentences for crimes of violence. For example, less than 1% had homicide convictions. What do you do with that data?

Interim Director Lyons: What I do is the fact that we cannot see it only based on violence or the propensity of violence in that crime. What I looked is that someone has committed a crime in the United States. Now, if you look at someone who has just been arrested, say, in Dui. Well, some people could say that it is just a minor crime. We may have avoided vehicular homicide along the way to someone who is a usual traffic criminal. I can’t look at the biggest scale of what specific crimes they are. You know, be it a violation, a homicide, of course, you want to get those worst. But if someone has committed a crime here in the United States and has been returned to the community, here illegally, we must focus on that. So, what I am concentrating is to ensure that those who have committed a crime are the first to focus, and that is who we are going to eliminate.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: As you know, the director, the Supreme Court recently allowed Thir D deportations to continue. Should we expect those deportations to increase in the near future? And other countries, additional nations, are now taking a step forward and saying that I will recover people who are not my citizens?

Interim director Lyons: Yes, I would say that you would see that. But what would return is the fact that the secure movements of the third country have been part of the immigration nationality law for decades. This is not something new, ice has always done this, so obviously it has come to the avant -garde now, because, as we speak previously, the application of immigration is at the forefront of the president’s administration. But this has been part of the immigration nationality law, which has been promulgated by Congress for decades. So we have been doing this for years. That has been part of one of the ICE tools to eliminate people from these recalcitrant countries that will simply return to anyone. First example, if we had a country that will not recover a suspect of homicide, and under the ruling of the Supreme Court of Zadvydas, we do not keep punitively, so we can only keep someone for six months to carry out its elimination. If your country does not take them back, we have to free this rapist and killer back to the community. What Congress did under the immigration nationality law, by promulgating the safe agreement of the third country, gives us the option of bringing these criminals to a country that will take them.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: Then those deportations will continue.

Interim Director Lyons: We will continue those deportations.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: To countries like South Sudan, for example.

Interim Director Lyons: Yes.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: Does it make sense to send people to countries where they have no ties? Even if they are criminals convicted.

Interim director Lyons: Well, I would say, it’s my main approach, as I said, it is security in the United States. Why would we let children’s rapists with a propensity to violence back to the community, because their hometown will not take them, when they are not legally here, or have no right to stay here? That is our approach. It is to ensure that we are eliminating these people in the country in the most effective and significant way we can. And if their country of origin does not take them back, then we need to look for other options, apart from letting them simply wandering for the United States.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: The News, director, has just reported that ICE now has access to the personal information of millions of people registered in Medicaid, including names and addresses. Can you confirm that this is true? And if so, what does ICE plan to do with that information?

Interim Director Lyons: You know, one thing we have seen is the fact that, under the last administration, we have so many acquaintances, or individuals who came to the United States and disappeared completely from the network. What ICE is doing is working with all our other federal partners to try to obtain intelligence, to locate these people who have been ordered by a judge or who have been released from a sanctuary jurisdiction as we speak. For that, ICE is using these data, whether they are data from the Department of Labor, Health Data and Human Services, Medicaid, We are using that data To try to locate, again, the worst of the worst, those who have been legally deported. So I think that for that you will see those data used.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: identify and arrest the people who are illegally here.

Interim Director Lyons: Yes.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: Let’s talk about the Alcatraz crocodile. Florida has just opened an installation, as they know, in the Everglades, which keeps people waiting for deportation because they are illegally here. Some of them have committed crimes. How much of that installation is designed to help you operationally compared to sending the message? That message is that, if you are illegally, it could be sent to this terrifying sound like Aligator Alcatraz.

Interim director Lyons: It is more operational. The state of Florida had associated with us for that. We had limited, we had limited space in Florida, obviously. What I would say is that we do not have the capacity of the detention space to eliminate people. Associate with states like this definitely helps us. It is an operational need for us, is to have those associations with states, especially a State like Florida that has the agreement 287 (G), where its local, state and county deputies are deputies to be ICE officials who meet these people. That definitely helps us in the mission of eliminating people from the United States.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: When underlining, there have been some growing tensions in some communities due to ice application actions. Do you think there is any way, director, to decalize the situation and can carry out the mass deportation operation that the president has promised without losing the confidence of many in the public?

Interim director Lyons: I think one of the main things for us is that open communication line, interviews like this, in reality people who look at what ICE is doing, which we highlight these criminal criminals that we are stopping. I think that a key thing is also to work with elected officials to reach common land, to really concentrate on the safety of neighborhoods and communities, and really concentrate on what Hige does in its mission of application of the law, and totally eliminates the rhetoric of what is said at this time, and it simply concentrates on that ICE is an application partner of the viable law that makes a meaningful public security mission for the United States. I think that is very key to maintaining this open communications line and working with the governments of the local and state government and the elected officials to ensure that we eliminate these public security threats from their communities.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: Director, is there anything that didn’t ask you what you wanted to underline?

Interim director Lyons: No, I liked it a lot, I appreciate that you take the time to come here, and let me highlight exactly what the ice mission is. And I only appreciate the opportunity to have that conversation.

Camilo Montoya-Galvez: Very good. Thanks, director.

Interim director Lyons: appreciate, thanks.

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